"Uhh... yeah, what he said...."
Life is full of surprises. Sometimes it is that last drop of rain that causes the levee to break, the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back, the stare down in the bar that ends up in a fight. And while they may not all have the best of outcomes, there is a brief moment of elation as the adrenelin kicks in before the reality sets up like the concrete around your feet. But damn, for a brief moment, anything is possible. Words are like that too. Bukowski once said, "it takes a lot of desperation, dissastisfaction, and disillusion to write a few good poems," perhaps it takes a few good words to cut through the murky waters, to express one's opinion that ends up being the opinion of many others who simply couldn't shake those very same words from their mouths. Take Mark Murphy for example.
He gave us a reply to an apparently innocent request, a demand you yourself may have received, which became a catalyst for a series of responses clearly outlining a need, the constraints of satisfying it, and a possible solution. Murphy's insight is electrifying. Since the exchange was made public via email to several individuals, artists and the like, and after a brief discussion with Murphy, I decided to post the responses for one specific reason: "to build a stronger arts community in San Diego" through dialogue, clarity, and purposefulness. Kevin Freitas
by Mark Murphy with permission
Question: CityBeat
Hey guys and gals,
We're looking for a cover image for Feb. 11, which will sorta be our
Valentine's Day cover. We're doing a story on people with nerdy
passions, so it doesn't have to be a piece with hearts and flowers, but
we're looking for something, anything that might work with that kind of
theme.
Oh, and again, we're not looking for anyone to do a new piece; this
would be something you already have laying around.
Thanks!
Answer: Mark Murphy
Just a polite heads up :
Hello : I think the idea of artworks laying around by passionate artists is
inappropriate : straight up, there is a lot of value that you folks take
advantage of in regards to receiving artwork that has little or no pay : and
I know you will combat me with the concept of "exposure," but honestly san
diego does not purchase original artwork as a community in droves : this is
a tough community where galleries and artists can mutually thrive :
Politely, I encourage more thoughtful calls to action, community based
inspiration and a true love for what you are trying to convey and move
beyond the atypical cattle call : essentially, MORE celebration of the arts
as a integral partner with your publication is fair and essential to
building a stronger arts community in san diego :
Thanks for listening :
Mark Murphy
author : publish : design
www.murphydesign.com
http://murphydesign1.blogspot.com
Thanks for speaking.
but wait, there's more...
Response: CityBeat
1. We feature local art our cover every week. Does anyone have a problem with that?
2. We do pay if we use your work. We do not only offer "exposure" as you say.
3. By saying "laying around" I meant work that is already completed. I do not want an artist doing a new piece just for our cover because we don't pay enough for that.
4. How about you come up with a more thoughtful call to action, Mark?
Addendum: CityBeat
We only pay $50, which is why I ask for work that is already completed
or "laying around" as I put it. I don't want some young artist doing a
new piece just for "exposure," which I am fully aware isn't enough for
anyone these days.
We feature a visual artist every month in our paper and I challenge you
to find a publication in San Diego that writes more about the visual
arts than we do. You put out pop-surrealism books and how often do they
include SD/TJ artist?
And on a personal note, I am a collector of art in San Diego. I own
about 20 pieces of original art and I've been putting on art shows
under the name Adapta Project for the last two years in both Tijuana and
San Diego. I know personally how difficult this city is in terms of
selling art. I've invested and lost hundreds of dollars doing these
shows. But I can tell you that a few of our cover artists have gotten
shows from being on our cover and probably a few more have sold pieces
because of our cover. We feature kick ass artwork on our cover and
remind people that these artists exist right in their own community.
So all that said, I've been to one show you put on and it was fantastic;
although, it featured mostly LA artists.
So, anyway, thanks for the "polite heads up" but why don't you challenge
yourself.
Response: Mark Murphy
Challenge accepted :
All of the books that I put together reward the artists no less than, $5000
and upwards to $30,0000 (and up) per artist contract : All of the singular
artists that I represent receive 50% of the sale of art and/or are
commissioned directly : Often times, collectors/public commissions are
found, at no commission to me for the artist to benefit :
Secondly, I am happy that you attended the show, (which one?), you can be
assured that most of the artists are world based : In other words, every
show I have every put on represents over 5 countries minimally, and
typically celebrates emerging artists, as well as the big names that I
personally sponsor : In relationship to San Diego, I am fully aware of most
people creating art, I teach in the community, participate in national art
events and curate exhibitions in museums : This kid knows what it takes, and
have collaborated with some of San Diego's finest :
+ Rafael Lopez, Charles Glaubitz, Pamela Jaeger, Matt Stallings, Raudiel
Sanudo, Andy Howell, Rich Jacobs, Dave Talbott, Joshua Krause, Katherine M.
Brannock, and many others : They have been featured in my books, "Heaven and
Hell," "Dialogue," "Guapo y Fuerte" and in exhibitions SuperHero, Heaven and
Hell, Dialogue and Miami Art Basel :
Lastly, I am one person who has worked with over 700 fine artists from
around the globe and sponsor, promote, publish and commission original
artwork with a budget that rivals most small firms made up of 10 people :
This could not be done without an artist community who I care deeply about,
San Diego, Los Angeles and otherwise :
There is no doubt that "I consistently challenge myself," and author highly
original content, while partnering with passionate artists who celebrate
what they do and provide for their families, as a direct result :
Your note deserves a response, so possibly you learn, that $50 is not fair,
nor is it ethical to feature an artist for a cover for a weekly magazine
that is distributed to attract advertising, readership and business
sustainability :
If you look up ALL Weeklys and look at what they pay artists for front cover
features, whether Photography, Fine Art, Illustration, Digital Arts, etc. I
am sure you will find numbers all over the map and beyond the original $50
reward : In fact, I have no doubt that a single payout is equal to one
personal and one want ad per week : Possibly you should grant the Artist a
full page ad in exchange for a full page cover :
I am pleased you responded, but feel that there is a need for your
publication to deliver a larger vestment, as there is more at stake for your
organization not to promote "Kick Ass Artists," and thus deliver inspired
content, as a result : The dialogue has begun and I am sure there will be
more :
All best and enjoy :
Defense: James Ivey
Sorry, but I gotta but in.
1. If you get the cover of any publication it looks good on the resume to
get into shows and is a great way to advertise your images without having to
pay for ads, postcards, etc......A gallery wants to see what you have done.
2. If you make art only for money and not because you are
obsessed..........................????
3. CityBeat has done stories on a number of us and I would give them a free
cover because of the exposure they gave me for free. I can get into shows
and I cannot help but to think Kinsee's support played a huge part in that.
4. Mark, I have sent you numerous emails with no reply versus a reply
everytime I send Kinsee an email. Being a book publisher I am sure you get
innundated with emails and maybe you just simply think my work is shit.
Art is subjective, that is cool. But my point is, Kinsee truly does support
the scene.
5. Mark- Idea for a book- New art south of LA with every artist linked to
this. Also, thanks for the books you have released. I have found a lot of
inspiration between the covers of a lot of them
Over and out, my two cents,
James Ivey
Final word by who, I can't tell...
I think that all of you should negotiate for more value : I think exposure is cool,
but San Diego needs to understand that original thinking is inspired value.
and still more...
Defense: Sean Newsome
Hello Mark,
You might remember me from classes I took at City College in 2003.
Back then, you “hired” students for zero pay. I remember students
working for you for nothing. Are you still doing that now, because it
completely conflicts with your position on this issue with Kinsee. Are
you paying your interns a lot more than $50 for each piece they create
for you that brings in revenue?
Last year, we hired about eight high school and college students to
work for our company and each one made at least minimum wage. I have a
second interview with an SDSU student Monday who will be very
surprised when I hire him AND pay him $11/hr. I will get superior work
from him since he is invested in the quality of the end product.
Kinsee is looking out for the artist community in San Diego by doing
what she can with limited resources in bad economic times while
keeping her company afloat. She’s doing $50 more for one cover than I
saw you do for a 40-hour work week.
If you are paying all of your employees fair wages for their work and
have abandoned working interns for no pay, then I stand corrected.
Otherwise, you should be thanking Kinsee for all of her efforts to
promote local artists in San Diego and giving them an opportunity to
at least pay for the ink to print their work.
I am a firm believer in Karma; what comes around goes around. If you
give nothing to someone for their work, you deserve nothing for their
efforts. If you feel so strongly about Kinsee’s approach, maybe you
might consider subsidizing the cover with a $100 award for the artist
selected. Act, or stop pontificating.
Because I appreciate Kinsee’s efforts to promote local artists and
advance our art community in difficult economic times, I publicly
pledge to reward the selected cover artist with a $100 reward above
the City Beat stipend (out of my wallet).
Thank you,
Sean Newsome
Global Sales Manager - SeaBotix
Response: Joe Nalven
Hi All:
Not to make an interesting discussion that much longer, but here are two
more cents worth.
These comments help to revisit and expand on topic, especially as it plays
out in San Diego.
Yes, there is value in getting one's art out; yes, there is value in
recognition -- paid with $$$ or glory or infamy.
And yes, we are all in different places in the continuum of career and life,
which makes all of our responses interesting. And maybe we are all Slumdog
Millionaires if we take a sufficiently broad perspective
of our existence on this planet Earth.
My only complaint is one of notice. Why the race-race to play this game? I
understand the dynamics for the publisher and those involved in getting the
news out. If we -- the artist -- are simply doing a graphic illustration and
trying to place something meaningful in it (rather than having a clump of
items in a pot and one is picked out as a couch at Jerome's), well make it
easier. The art is not the hard part. Except for that minor complaint, I
like being included in the solicitation process.
BTW, the notice circulating about petitioning Obama for a Minister of
Arts -- hey, why not continue this discussion into a Minister of Arts for
San Diego. Not one that springs out of the minds of local politicians, but
out of a coherent force for art in San Diego.
I'm always thinking titles for exhibits. We could have an exhibit called,
The Minister of Arts and Kinsee could put it into play from City Beat.
Anyway, just a thought before the Super Bowl.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts,
Joe Nalven
Editor/DAG webzine
www.digitalartguild.com
Response: Mario Torero
MOST OF US ARE STILL FRUSTRATED WITH THE ECONOMICAL SITUATION, THOUGH THE PAIN HAS GOTTEN A HOPEFUL FLASH WITH THE OBAMA ELECTION.
THANKX BE TO 'CITY BEAT'/KINSEE THAT HAVE BEEN CONCERNED AND ACTIVE ON THE LOCAL, SD/TJ ART SCENE, A RECENT PHENOMENON IN COMPARISON TO THE OTHER TWO, SDUNION & THE READER. SD, ONE OF THE RICH AND SIXTH LARGER CITIES, HAS HAD ITS MEDIA AND CIVIC LINE, KNOWN FOR NOT CARING MUCH ABOUT THE ARTS. ALL OUR PAST EFFORTS TO CREATE AN ARTS DISTRICT DOWNTOWN, HAS BEEN SQUASH BY GREED AND SOULLESS DEVELOPMENT. ITS RACIST EDGE HAS KEPT ETHNIC ARTISTS OUTSIDE OF THE 'MAIN STREAM' TO THE POINT THAT CHICANO ART HAS HAD ITS OWN 'FIRE' BECAUSE THEY HAD TO SURVIVE ON THEIR OWN, THEREFORE PERHAPS THERE HAS BEEN A HYBRID ART DEVELOPMENT OUTSIDE OF THE BOX, WHICH HAS FOUND NEW GROUNDS, SPECIALLY WITH THE ENERGY AND POWER THAT HAS COME OUT OF THE MEXICAN SIDE, STILL MUCH ALIEN TO MANY ON THIS SIDE.
BUT ARTISTS DON'T DIED, THEY JUST RE-ADAPT, SURVIVE AND MULTIPLY. OUR MEMORIES ARE ALIVE AND WE ARE FINDING OUR NEW STRENGTH IN THE EVENTS UNFOLDING. I'VE ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT ARTISTS ACTUALLY GROW BETTER UNDER HARSH CONDITIONS, WHY? WELL WHEN THERE IS LACK OF WEALTH, ARTISTS CAN BE THE SOURCE OF KEEPING THE SPIRIT ALIVE, WITH OUR OWN CREATIONS, WE ENTERTAIN AND THE OUTSIDE PRESSURE ALLOWS US TO COME TOGETHER FOR MUTUAL SUPPORT. IF WE HAVE EXHIBITS AND THE ART DOESN'T SELL, WE WILL HAVE HAVE A GOOD TIME AND WE WILL FILL OUR SHOWS WITH OTHER ARTISTS AND FAMILIES AND THAT VIBE HELPS THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY AT LEAST FEEL A SENSE OF HUMANITY WHICH IS WHAT ART CAN DO.
FROM THE FIRST (NY?) TO THE TWELFTH LARGEST CITY, ALL, IF NOT MOST, HAVE AN ARTS DISTRICT THAT DRIVES THE GROWTH OF THE LOCAL ECONOMY, ALL EXCEPT SAN DIEGO BUT THE TIME HAS COME AND THE NEW ARTS DISTRICT IS BECOMING BARRIO LOGAN. WE, AS ARTISTS ARE A MULTI-GENERATIONAL ENTITY WHO KNOW WHAT WE WANT AND HAVE A DINOSAUR TYPE OF MEMORY AND EXPERIENCE THAT SERVES OUR NEW GENERATIONS TO BUILT SOMETHING NEW ON OUR OWN CARCASES. WE ARE HUMANS FIRST AND OUR CREATIONS REFLECT THAT HUMANESS THAT'S NECESSARY TO CIVILIZATION'S EVOLUTION. WHEN WE ORGANIZE AND ACT, ITS 'REVOLUTION' IN THE MAKING AND SOONER OR LATTER THE REST OF SOCIETY CATCHES ON AND WE ARE THRIVING AGAIN.
LETS GET INVOLVED MORE IN COMMUNITY, 'ARTIVISM' AND DIALOGUE. THIS IS OUR TIME AGAIN TO RAISE OUR FLAG AND CLAIM OUR LIVE/WORK SPACES, FROM MAGAZINE COVERS TO CULTURAL CENTERS, WHICH IN TURN WILL ALSO RAISE THE AWARENESS OF OUR NEIGHBORS AND HOPEFULLY OUR CIVIC LEADERS, YET HISTORY HAS SHOWN US THAT ONLY WE CAN DO IT, WITH OUR FREEDOM AND VISION FOR A SANE PLANET.
THANK YOU PEOPLE FOR THE INSPIRATION.
JUST LOVE THE PRISM OF HER MERCY.
mario torero
858-774-1286 cell
619-299-2840 studio
http://www.fuerzamundo.org
Response: Perry L. Meyer
i wish i had as much support at my gallery as well as others..as you have
given this situation,
that's all folks
Perry L. Meyer Fine Art
2400 Kettner Blvd, Suite 104
Tues -Thur 11-5 Fri-Sat 11-6
or By Appointment
San Diego, Ca 92101
Phone: (619) 358-9512
Cell: (619) 708-7210
fax: (619) 578-2762
Email: info@plmeyerfineart.com
Website: www.plmeyerfineart.com
Response: Mark Murphy
Nice email threads everyone : glad everyone is talking in a proactive way :
I am copying you all on the response to Sean/Marliis Newsome, as I noticed
it was not shared with all of you in response to the failure to fact check :
so here are the facts if anyone is interested : have a good weekend :
Sean :
Funny letter : I never worked with anyone at city college for "0" pay :
actually, 2 people worked with me for $20-$30 per hour : Chris Conway and
Lisa Wilson : So unfortunately, your entire letter is wrong : Not sure where
you learned this information : And besides, I never hired students while
they were in class : I am not sure there are many companies in the entire
city that offered internships for pay, accept me :
To fact correct, I work exclusively with Ninthlink, always have, 8 years,
and all of the projects are shared equally between the two of us, so not
sure where all of this information comes from :
While at City College I worked at Miriello Grafico for most of that time and
never hired interns : So it seems that you may have me confused for someone
else as, my specific instruction to all of you gifted students at City
College always recommended to never work for free : In fact, I had an entire
lecture per class about freelance, exchange and value building :
unfortunately you may have missed out on this information somehow :
Pontification, is no where close to the my personal message and in no way
reflects on me, as mentioned in your letter : In fact, I work with over 100
artists per year, at no less than $1000 per artist and upwards up to $30K :
So good luck with that concept : Not sure where you get this either :
Good fortunes with your career, as there are few in the entire industry that
empowers more artists on a local or world level : you should look at my blog
and consider that every artist that I represent earns 100% opportunity all
the way through : You should have fact checked before writing :
In 2008, I worked with over 178 artists, 0 interns, 11 designers and 44
engineers on paid projects : Not to mention 110 artists represented at Miami
Art Basel, the publishing of the LA Illustration Annual (220 artists) and
the Laguna Museum's Low Brow Celebration-"in the land of retinal delights,"
(190 artists) not to mention books for Jeff Soto, Ray Caesar, Kathie Olivas,
Brandt Peters and Cathie Bleck :
The past 9 years of my career have empowered many artists locally and my
career since 1991 has celebrated over 11 museum installations and over and
54 exhibitions : the world needs more people who love the arts at a high
level as well as more people with the drive and dedication :
San Diego needs to step it up, $50 reward is not fair for a cover, and my
opinion still stands, while I congratulate you to reward people $100 of your
own investment on behalf of the newspaper, very admirable : Good fortunes :
PS : you may want to share this letter with the entire group, as your letter
is not 100% incorrect in all of its factual data, and you may want to
correct your position, as none of what you stated about my hiring habits are
true :
All best,
Mark Murphy
author : publish : design
www.murphydesign.com
619/743-0405
Defense: Jamie Roxx
Okay everyone, quit being all philosophical and get back to work. Kinsee
is just trying to throw a bone out there. again we're talking about
City Beat, they only have a budget that is so big. That's why she was
being cool and said hey if you have something that will work. Don't
knock out something new.
A big problem (a perceived problem with so many artists here) with the
arts community in san diego, is that everyone has to be all weird and
van gough out. Everyone has to try to be an "Artist" and out "artist"
everyone else.
I don't know how many of you folks do this for a living, but there has
been a couple of days of wasted enegery in "oh we're being messed over
by such and such. It frankly sounds like everyone has a lot of time on their hands.
Let's just get back to work. Kinsee has been a better friend than
most in helping/supporting etc etc the local scene. She's once again
trying to help and do what she can. So say thanks, help her out fit
in her bone into your marketing plan (or don't) and move on with your
day and finish our work.
~Jamie Roxx
Apology: Sean Newsome
Hello Mark,
Actually, I just got back from a round of disc golf with my son and
was composing this letter...
Thank you for the thoughtful response. as I stated in my letter, if I
was mistaken regarding interns, I stand corrected and I owe you a
response. As you know, the issue I raised has been in practice here in
San Diego (and elsewhere) and it always bothered me that this was
occurring. People need to be taught there is value in their work, even
if there is only a nominal return early on in their career.
And thank you for the positive feedback on my career. Now, if I could
only wrestle the graphic design away from one of the co-founders...
I'm still pondering your calling out Kinsee's call to artists,
however. Maybe I'm simply missing your point. I'm not sure why,
especially in these economic times, it would be inappropriate for an
artist to have some excellent pieces laying around? If you need to pay
the heating bill and you've got a piece that matches Kinsee's
description, why not take advantage of it and get a little exposure?
My offer still stands for a $100 reward to the selected artist and I
pledge to continue to find ways to support the local arts however I
can and within my budget.
Thank you,
-Sean
Support: Don Hollis
Great dialogue. There's nothing like a common goal to raise the bar. Hell, art may be a better investment than stocks these days. Kinsee rocks like no one else, Mark kicks ass, and we all benefit from the collective repetition and frequency of quality cultural happenings in our region.
Glad to be here,
Don Hollis
Support: Sake
Alot of talent in this email chain! We should get toghter and throw a massive art show in San Diego.
Regards,
Sake
thesaratogasake.blogspot.com
Response: Sean Dietrich
This has been a funny email chain...lots of good, funny, bad and really bad points brought up. First of all, if there was any professionalism from City Beat I wouldn't be receiving 30 emails, because a professional knows what BCC is. Anyways, I thought I might jump in and throw out a few opinions on this topic and the art scene as well...
Yes, I've submitted artwork to the cover of the magazine several times, so I do realize the exposure aspect of getting a piece of artwork printed on the cover. Unfortunately though the quality of the cover art and the print resolution has been horrible lately--I don't know if it's just a laziness issue or a printer issue, but wow...these last few covers really do convey the point that Kinsee makes in that she wants artwork that is laying around. I do agree that City Beat has helped in the past--they ran a little blurb about my show last year during the comic con, so it's not all bad. But it doesn't matter if the art is laying around or not--the attitude that is conveyed when you say something like that is one of laziness. Push the artists in this town...half of them shouldn't be in the industry in the first place--so push artists to put something new out for the cover, or if they do have something already finished, then be accepting of that, but don't just make it out to be as important as some lazy, chain smoking pregnant mother telling her kid to get her another beer out of the fridge. This is the magazine you work for, Kinsee, you are the art director, act like one.
The problem being is that the San Diego art scene, as some of you have hinted at, is one of the saddest in the nation--it's growing, yes, but still filled with Shamoo, La Jolla landscape paintings and pet portraits, which aren't exactly the height of innovation. I've lived in many towns and have had the pleasure of growing up on the East Coast near the National Gallery, and so have had the privilege of growing up in cities that offered not only an incredible gallery to look at, but a local art scene that was full of innovation and creativity. This city, no matter if you think you are in it just to be an artist, thrives on the monetary aspect of our craft. I do a minimum of 22 shows a month--5 weekly live painting events and several monthly showings so I get to see a pretty good cross section of the art community and get to interact and talk to alot of the people who come to this event, and it is sad to here them say "We've never seen anything like this before." It's also sad to see galleries that charge the artist up to a few hundred bucks to get into a show and then take a cut--that is one of the most appalling things I've seen so far. I give thanks to those of you who have put in the effort to get out there and push to make this art scene a better one, including Kinsee and City Beat who have done a bit as far as reporting on the art scene, but don't ever back yourself up by only saying 'find another magazine who has written more' about the local arts. That to me is just bullshit. That's like an artist saying "I do more paintings than any other artist in this city"--yet they are all shit. It's not the quantity, it's the quality, and City Beat lately has been lacking. I deal with a lot of magazines in Europe and the difference is that when I submit for a review or an interview and they agree, the follow up and the work gets done in a timely manner, and the enthusiasm is unmatched. They are actually excited about the quality of art and the artists and I get a minimum of 3 follow ups to see if they did a good job on the article or if they can do something else.
Enthusiasm is what lacks in this community--I see too many artists concerned about the 'fashion' aspects of the art scene. They throw a show with some sub par art of theirs, but the real show is when they walk in looking like some red carpet abortion from the Oscars. They put more effort into their looks and their lame choice of cocktail than they do the quality of their artwork, and then strut around like they own the fucking town. There is no enthusiasm in their game though and the show ends up looking like every other art show--a few bored people sitting around looking at the art, wondering who the artist is because he/she is at the bar with their close friends not giving a shit.
And I will give credit to those who are throwing amazing shows...Schugariver and the Dope Show put on some of the best shows I've ever had the pleasure to be apart of--and of course Ginger who's trunk shows help start my career in this town as a live painter so many years ago. They truly are visual feasts and span every form of art from the fine to the freakish. They put effort into their shows, they take the time to promote correctly and when someone walks into one of these shows they are able to talk with artists that love what they do and are willing to let the person pick their brain about techniques and styles etc. Yes, you will always get one or two artists that fall into that category of laziness and pompousness that I wrote of earlier, but nothing is perfect. All I ask is that you spend more time realizing that what you do for the San Diego art scene in important because it is small as hell and the quality of artist is few and far between, so if you submit something to Kinsee to put on the cover of the magazine, make sure you put some effort into it--this is going out to many, many people and this is what many see as the face of the San Diego art scene. So to Kinsee, I understand what point you were trying to make, but please don't tell artists to throw you something they have lying around...because they will. And to the artists, make something new for the cover because your newest should be your best (and then just lie and say you had it already finished from last year...hahaha)
Anyways, thanks for the time to those who read this, and if anyone is interested in doing an art show, let me know, I know events that are always looking for new artists to display. Drop me a line sean@industriacide.com
Sincerely,
Sean Dietrich
STUDIO INDUSTRIACIDE
Phone: 619.634.3804
Email: sean@industriacide.com
Web: www.industriacide.com
Support: Kenny Sanchez
soo many people rowled up about this.
....just be happy to have your work on a cover of a mag. It's pretty cool to be chowing down on a Crane Asada burritio at your favorite taco shop seeing your work in the Citybeat stand next to ya.
Thanks for my cover few weeks back, no complaints here.
Kenny Sanchez
http://threefourmedia.com/



















